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Discussions > General Topics > General Discussions > Pure breed snobbery

Pure breed snobbery

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Sangrael
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Hi all, Three weeks ago I lost my Westie at 14 years old. Two weeks ago today I bought a Scoland Terrier (aka Scottie cross Westie) and I've been looking them up on the web to get pics of them in adult form. What has amazed me is the absolute snobbery of those who only acknowledge 'pure' breeds. I have read article after article where new hybrids are given short shrift. I agree that ridiculous crosses are unacceptable, but when you have a dog like mine you are actually only returning to the original forms that were exploited to get the 'Scottish' breeds. Having owned Westies and Skye Terriers, I was struck by just how the 'Scoland' bears more than a passing resemblance to the Skye. I have also noted that this hybrid is getting a 'standardised' set of coat markings with the prominent white streak down the chest. Is this not the basis of a breed? That, if it breeds consistently true then you essentially have a new breed. Take for example the 'Sprocker' - a cross of the Springer and Cocker Spaniel. Well what you actually have is a 'Spaniel', exactly the same type of Spaniel from which the two distinctions were made and bred from. Litters were mixed, the larger dogs used for retrieving and the smaller for flushing. Then some bright eyed young thing got the idea to breed type with type... 17th CENTURY DESIGNER DOGS! We suddenly had two breeds of Spaniel which were actually the SAME dog. Th attitude that we should keep inbreeding the same mutants to create even more mutants is abhorrent. My sister owns two Westies from different litters and quite frankly they look nothing like each other both in facial shape and build. They are beautiful fellas with very good pedigrees if you go for that type of thing but what makes them any more valid as a distinct breed than my own 'mutt'? Dougal is a fine little chap, amazingly well house trained at 9 weeks and criminally intelligent, something that could not be said of my Spaniel which was criminally stupid and which had a pedigree and all that jazz as long as my arm. What's more his build and poise are superb. I'll keep my little F1 Hybrid and I'll be proud to say that hes a 50/50 :) What's more I will chuckle, maybe even guffaw at those who tell me he's not a 'proper' Scottish breed and direct them to a history book, painting or period account before the Purebreed Nazis came to power!
 


sycadoog
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I have to agree completly. I was shocked at the attitude of people against any mix breed dog. I have had several mixed and prebreds over the years and they are all great dogs. My first dog was a Schnoodle. He had the best of both breeds. I often wonder if those people give any though to how we got so many breeds and varieties if it was not for people crossing in the best features and making "mutts" that they refined over the generations.
RUDY
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As an owner of a Labradoodle and a Goldendoodle we are faced with this bigotry frequently by Pedigree owners calling doodles "mongrels"; a friend was asked if his dog was "one of those f***ing doodles?" and even on some dog forums we have been abused and alienated. Just ignore these idiots - they are narrow-minded- crossbreeds tend to be healthier and generally cheaper than pedigrees, but look at it this way. we love our dogs and are entitled to our choices and we obviously don't have such sad lives as to slag off other breeds....maybe they are insecure at the threat of crossbreeds taking over?????
sophiesmom
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I have been asked to leave sites because of my "half-breed designer mutt". Needless to say, I had plenty to say before I left. Those of us with designer breeds know how wonderful and perfect they are. Call my Sophie what you want-Chipoo, Chi-poo, Poochi, mutt, half-breed, hybrid or whatever, the truth hurts them cause she is perfect!![:I]! LOL I have pure bred German Shepherds and I have never looked down on anyone with a mixed breed GSD, just tell them how lucky they are to have the GSD mixed in. Oh, well, what ya gonna do. With some of the names that our little ones are given, they should know we have a great sense of humor. [:D][:D]
Sangrael
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Well after 7 weeks I'd not be without Dougal. Ironically he looks like a Scottie pup (being half that and half Westie) He's loyal, walks without his lead in the wilds, loves to travel and has such a character! He's filled a big part of the hole that the loss of Rosie caused...and who could ask for more? Regards to all Mark [:D]
sophiesmom
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Mark, I know what you mean. My Sophie is the love of my life and I could not imagine life without her. I don't know when I have ever felt such unconditional love from a loved one with four legs.[:)]
poppydoodle
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Hi there, My poppy is a mastidoodle (50 mastif, 50 standard poodle) and before i brought her i tried to research her as much as i could, but all i could come across is people slagging off poddle crosses!! Sad thing is none of them realise that the reason poodles started being crossed in the first place was so blind people with allergies could have a guide!! so many small minded people out there, makes me so angry! x
Kelidimari

I don't mean to offend anyone by posting this...but the purebred snobbery exists in wikipedia also and is being debated even right now.. I believe that when people first look for dog information, wiki is not a bad place to turn to.... If wikipedia removes all hybrid dog information, then it is giving an unfair advantage, I feel, to the "purebred" dogs... But, I believe that the "non-purebred" dogs are also wonderful, and many types are very different, and should be given their own section, so that people get the full spectrum of the rainbow instead of only the primary colors. Therefore, I am asking a favor... If you guys have wikipedia accounts, please help me save the "non-purebred" pages! It only takes maybe 3-5 minutes. 1) Log into your wiki account. 2) Go to the website(s) 3) Click on "edit" 4) Type * <--this puts a bullet out front KEEP then choose to bold it (this is a button) Then give the reasoning on why to keep the article. Sign off with ~~~~ This automatically puts your username and gives weight to your signing off. Thank you very much for your patience and consideration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/ShiChi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Puggle
taylorad1986
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I love my little mutt. anyone else can say whatever they want. I believe that i got the best of both breeds and they make a beautiful combination in my opinion (she's a rotterman).
brittaney08

I have a schneagle (50 schnauzer and 50 beagle) and also a purebred schnauzer. I love BOTH of my little fellows. My schneagle is the sweetest little thing on earth. He is NO LESS special to me than my schnauzer, they both have a very special place in my heart. I hate when people turn their noses up to hybrids, mutts or whatever you chose to call them. Just like any pure bred he is a great companion. People who look down on hybrid are just plain idiots [:D]
micheharris
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I guess I've been kinda lucky in that I haven't come across some of the vitriol against mixed breeds that some of the other posters have. I will say this: I have a schnoxie (schnauzer/dachsund mix) and a purebred schnauzer with all the paperwork and registration forms that any breeder could ask for. My schnoxie is just about the smartest thing in the house. My schnauzer is dumb as a bag of rocks.
lani2587

The problem that people, and I, have with "Designer Mixes" is the fact that people can cross any two breeds and come up with a name and then go off and sell the puppies for tons of money. The dog is either a purebred, or a mix, simple as that. Like what you like. I am NOT saying that mixed breeds are not good dogs, but they have no history and therefore are unpredictable or have a wide range in size, color, markings, temperment, and health. A purebred is much more predictable in all areas and an owner can choose a breed based on it's general characteristics and health history and therefor get a dog more suited for their lifestyle. You CAN'T do that with a "designer dog." There is not enough history in it's lineage. And IMO it's fine if you adopt a dog from a shelter and want to give it's breed a name, becaue it is a special pet. But when people are intentionally crossing breeds, and coming up with virtually HUNDREDS of new breeds, that's NOT OK. When people keep pushing "pro designer breeds" That gives anyone, anywhere the idea that mixing purebred A with poor health, to purebred B with bad temperment, and coming up with a DESIGNER is just fine. And unless you know EVERYTHING about purebred A and B's pedigree and genes, only then can you say that the puppies are going to turn out a certain way. There are MILLIONS of pets that die in shelters, so how about work on the purebreds that are already in existance instead of throwing two dogs together and saying "Hey I just created BullShih puppies! Lets sell them for $800!! It's a HYBRID" Also a hybrid is not a dog/dog mix. A hybrid is a cross between two species, like Wolf/dog JFYI. And unless your dog is recognized by a notable kennel club, AKC, CKC, UKC, it IS a mutt so I don't understand why people are getting offended. But mutts are NOT bad pets!! I had a mixed breed dog, and he was the best dog ever. He was healthy, he was smart, he was beautiful. But he was just that, a mix. So go ahead and have your mixes, and please LOVE them, and give them great lives, but please don't go BREED them and make MORE unwanted animals on this earth just so you can create a "new breed". The breeds that are noted on this website just makes me sad. And what's even worse, is when you click on the picutres and they are taken from someone's home, and it's based on ONE dog.... COME ON people...... End of rant
sands904
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Hello lani and thank you for your input. I agree that people should not breed their pet (mixed-breed or purebred). There are TONS of dogs in shelters but there are just as many purebreds in shelters as mixes. Purebreds can be bred by poor breeders and have health defects, behavioral issues, etc. In fact many of the health problems (ie: hip dysplasia, luxating patella, etc) in purebreds are because of the closed gene pool in each breed. In fact if you read a recents article in the Whole Dog Journal there were articles about Dalmations that have a problem with bladder stones that can end up being fatal. A couple of breeders took purebred Dalmations and back-crossed them with purebred Pointers. After four generations the crossed Dalmations looked identical to purebred Dalmations but the they had no incident of bladder stones. This is just one example where mixing of breeds can help! In fact if you read about the history of each and every Purebred they were created in this way. By selectively breeding dogs with certain characteristics. Purebred dogs were not put here in the form you see them today. So, crossing of dogs/breeds is nothing new. I do agree this poor economy has brought out some horrible practices concerning breeding but this is not limited to Mixed breed dogs. In fact our site is trying to promote the adoption and rescue of all dogs, especially mixes. We are also trying to get the word out about not breeding! Thanks again for your comments!
michdwy
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This discussion pro and contra about Designer dogs is a fascinating one and I suppose is one on which there is unlikely to ever be general agreement, there are so many facets to it. I agree with Iani that the unscrupulous crossbreeding for financial gain of unlikely combinations should be deplored, but Sands904 makes a far more convincing argument. Let's face it, there is far too much breeding of dogs anyway (like the human race too unfortunately). Pointing the finger at designer breeds just doesn't hold water. On the whole mutts as Iani disparaging calls them are almost always in better health than the majority of pure breeds. I think most insurance companies accept that generally mongrels cost them far less than the most popular pedigree. Sadly it is the inbreeding created especially in the Show Dog world, where the looks of the dog are essential that has ensured that many pure bred dogs are unhealthy. Iani seems to suggest that crossbreeding produces freaks. This however is not the case. It is incestuous breeding, in order to carry the name of a famous showdog winner, which is certainly the main source of the inherited diseases in so many breeds. A few years ago, the BBC attacked, the Kennel Club. They revealed the deficiences in many breeds at Crufts, the world's greatest dog show. Their main attack was on the Cavalier King Charles spaniels, 40% of which have permanent head aches, because they have been bred to have heads so small that there is not sufficient room for their brain. They showed German shepherds, all really gorgeous to look at with their sloping backs, but not one of them could even walk properly round the ring. The judge ignored their gait. He was only interested in their shape and presentation. The BBC made many demands on the Kennel Club, including their attitude to incestuous breeding and although Crufts was a very popular show on TV, they refused to show it until their had been modifications in the breeding of 10 of the most popular breeds. They still don't show Crufts on TV. I would only choose a pedigree over a designer dog for a specific purpose. I used to have labradors to act as retrievers, but ensured they were from gun dog stock, not show dogs where hip dysplacia is endemic. Working with police dogs, but malinois, which had not been tainted by body altering breeding as in the show dog German shepherds. Sight-hound Lurchers, which are usually of greyhound, whippet or deer hound stock, but crossed with other breeds, often terriers. These "mutts" are the cream of free-range hunting or coursing dogs. Superior to the purebreds which are in their ancestry. Practically all racing whippets are lurchers, and they are by no means unknown in greyhound racing. Currently I have a new designer dog, a pug-tzu (50% each pug and shih tzu). She is a fantastic dog, 2 1/2 year old she has never been ill. She has a friend, a pug, who visits the vet weekly and has cost over £3000 ($4500) in a year. Introducing new blood by crossing breeds seems to be the best way to ensure healthy dogs.
corky21
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ok so i have a pineranian which is a min pin pomeranian and i dont call her a desinger at all she is a mutt. i can understand where people come from when it comes to these dogs. the people who have created our now purebreds have spent their whole lives trying to perfect this breed and has taken them many years with trial and error to creat these pure breeds. the point of view that they are coming from is people who started designer dogs just decided to throw any 2 dogs together and called it a breed. i can understand how they feel about these dogs after they spent years trying to develope theirs by mixing the perfect dogs to create something to do its job better. i can understand mixing a lab and poodle to try and make the ultimate hunting dog. but some of these breeds are completely pointless to mix in my opinion. i understand mixing dogs to make them better at the job these breeds were bred to do. but when you start mixing breeds like a min pin and a pug you have to stop and think "why the hell would you mix those?" some "designer" breeds i actually think are quite rediculous with the names they have and what they mixed together. but thats just my honest opinion.
Ally
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As an owner of a Labradoodle and a Goldedoodle, and someone who has had pedigrees for many years also I find the bigotry of people and snobbery about their pedigree dogs being better than our cross breeds insulting and pathetic. Our dogs are as valuable to us as theirs are to them andthey are naive or ignorant to assume their dogs are better than anyone else's. In the UK we have the Kennel club who many cross breed woners would NOT want them to get involved with our types of dogs because of what they have done to many pedigree breeds. Many of us have encountered this bigotry on forums and had our dogs insulted.... this is ignorance and nastiness on the part of the pedigree owners and you rarely, if ever, hear a crossbreed owner slating pedigree dogs and their owners except in self defence.
Pareeeee
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I completely agree! I own a pug / toy fox terrier hybrid. The other dog forum I am a member on is VERY snobbish because of all the purebreed owners...
setho212

I think most people here are confusing snobbery with passion and frustration. On the other dog boards I look at, most people admit openly that they have no issue with mixed breed dogs and that many people who own purebreed dogs also own mixed breed dogs. The people you call snobbish are clear that they do not view your dogs as lesser dogs, but rather are upset by the fact that you bought your dog from a breeder of designer dogs and that you do not seem to understand why that is a bad thing.

The problem with the designer dog industry is that the vast majority of the so called breeders of designer dogs are nothing more than backyard breeders with absolutely no skill or experience in dog breeding. Breeding dogs is a science and requires a lot of knowledge and experience to do correctly. Most designer dog breeder simply stick two dogs together and hope for the best. VA responsible breeder constantly monitors their dogs for any conditions that would cause them not to produce the healthiest puppies possible. A responsible breeder only seeks out mating partners for their dogs that will provide qualities that advance and improve the breeder. The simple fact of the matter is that the vast vast majority of designer dog breeders simply find 2 dogs that look cute and breed them to hopefully produce a dog that looks cute. Very few designer dog breeders do health testing on their sires and dams to determine whether they have good enough genes to pass on to puppies. Heck very few designer breeders even understand what health tests are necessary to produce a healthy dog. Just because a breeder says they take a dog to the vet regularly means nothing. A responsible breeder will have their dog genetically tested and if they have genes for certain conditions (even if they dont display the condition) the breeder will not use the dog for breeding.
 
Another problem with designer dog breeding in general is that there is a lot of misinformation spread. When two breeds are bred together there is no way to guarantee that you will get all the good characteristics of each breed and none of the bad. In fact, when you breed two different breeds each with their own unique health problems you run the risk of producing a puppy that has the health problems of both of its parents. Responsible breeders are able to avoid this by carefully selecting dogs with good characteristics to breed with one another. Unfortunately, as I said above,most designer dogs breeders simply stick 2 dogs together and hope for the best.
 
Before you attack me and say that purebred breeders are not perfect either, I know all the problems I just mentioned are not exclusive to designer dog breeders. However, if you read the comments by purebred dog owners on other message boards you will notice that they advocate for doing a lot of research on finding a reputable breeders who is experienced in breeding and knows how to breed healthy dogs. Unfortunately in the world of designer dogs, there are very few breeders out there who are responsible breeders.
 
Before you attack me again, please do not think that I think buyers of designer dogs bad people. However, in most instances people who go to designer dog breeders are not educated on the responsible way to buy a dog. They do not ask the right questions to determine whether a breeder is running a good operation and they have a tendency to fall for the misinformation that most back yard breeders give like promises about the dog only having the best qualities of each breed. It is essential that someone looking to purchase a dog do as much research as possible.
 
Perhaps the most frustrating thing about people who purchase dogs from designer dog breeders is that they could get the same exact dog from a rescue shelter. By seeking out a designer dog breeder, one more dog remains in a shelter that could have been adopted.
samspups
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I am a breeder of swiss whte shepherds cross malamutes and swiss qhite shepherd cross husky dogs and I have found there can be a little bit of intolerance from pedigree breeders, but as it was just stated in the last post its because of all the work they go through to perfect the breed and do health testing etc...
 
I am one of the responsible designer breeders, I test all of my puppies and send them with a desexing contract if their test scores are not high enough, I also sell them vaccinated, microchipped wormed and with puppy packs containing everything they could need for the first few weeks including extras like bed collars and nicknacks, I also start toilet training my puppies from 4 weeks of age and I refuse to sell them under 8 weeks old i prefer to sell them at around 10weeks old so that they have recieved the proper socialisation that is needed from those crucial first months with their mother and siblings, alot of behaviour problems in all dogs not just mixed breeds occur because the puppies have been released to young. I also have a contract which I send with my puppies which the new owners must sign stating that if they can no longer look after the dog even if it is on its last legs that they must surrender it back to me not the pound.
 
There are some responsible cross breeders out there, but not many I regret to say.....
emgerber
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I totally agree with the comments about the Purebred Snobbery. My designer dog gets put down by purebred owners at Agility Shows. She has just as much skill and talent as the purebred dogs and does excellent in the ring earning qualifing runs. It is the owners who have the problems, the dogs do not care what breed the other dogs is when it come to play and having fun, they all love to be together. I guess our dogs have not finished teaching humans how to be accepting of all.
BellaBonBon
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I fully agree with the purebred snobbery issue, and fully DISagree with those who posted in efforts to actually substantiate or justify their attitude in regard to purebred dogs.
 
There are PLENTY of puppy mills and bad breeders of purebred dogs out there, who are doing the VERY same thing that you pawned off on the designer dog breeders.  It is not a Type A vs. Type B situation; anyone with half a brain would know that, acknowledge it, and admit it. 
 
The problem is NOT with the breed (or mix of breeds)...the problem is with the breeder themselves, and those who choose to support their nasty, inhumane actions by purchasing their puppies and/or kittens!!!
 
You can have a very well established, clean-facilitied, and educated Morkie breeder who only crosses a purebred Yorkshire Terrier with a purebred Maltese.  Monthly treatments, and spoiled rotten pets. THEN....by the same token, you can have a breeder of purebred chihuahuas who keeps their facilities in absolutely abhorrent conditions, filthy pens, malnourished pets, fleabitten pets, etc. It's NOT the breed it's the breeder, so for you to sit their on your ever-so-high throne and throw it at the designer dog breeders?  You should be ashamed of yourself in addition to being ashamed of anyone else who shares your opinion.
 
I have a Morkie and a Brussapoo, I will never call them mutts, because they're not in my opinion "Mutts".  A properly bred designer dog stems from a purebred parent of one breed and a purebred parent of another breed.  That is not a mutt...that is a crossbred dog.
 
I wonder how these holier-than-thou purebred fanatic nutjobs are going to feel when these designer dogs become a breed of their own one day?
BellaBonBon
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And another thing...purebred or not...if your breeder will not allow you to go to THEIR home to pick up your puppy and inspect and view the environment from which your puppy came...DONT GET THAT PUPPY.  
 
They will tell you "oh it's for hygiene purposes", or..."it makes the dogs nervous"...those are all BS excuses.  What they're really doing is trying to avoid you seeing their puppy mill.
 
A truly good breeder is a breeder that is PROUD to show others the breeding environment for their animals, as well as any play areas, breeding areas, feeding areas, sleeping areas, etc.  A good breeder will be one that is completely supportive of you wanting to see the area from which your puppy comes.  A bad breeder....will do the opposite; fact.
 
 
emgerber
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I thought I was one of a few who felt this way when it comes to how they are treated by purebred breeders. I am sure as one person said for some breeders it can be frustration and concern over the quality of dogs being produced. However I am not a breeder I am and owner. I do agility with my dog and I look at a dog in the ring by its skills, agility and speed. Purebred or Designer does not even come into question, yet at an agility show purebred owners can be very unkind because my dog is a designer mix.
BellaBonBon
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Hi again,
 
While I was sitting on the couch today with my exhausted Brussapoo and Yorktese (I played them to tiredness)...a realization occurred to me.   We are EXACTLY the same as the "purebred fanatic nutjobs" (as I so eloquently named them).
 
We sit in our Fiberglass houses and throw stones at their Waterford Crystal houses.  Next thing you know it will be boulders from catapults.  It is racism; no more and no less.  It is human beings trying to "one up" on other human beings.  It is the very nature of humanity itself;  jealousness, hatred and sin.  I'm not trying to be a bible-thumpin' nutjob, I'm simply stating fact.
 
When it all comes down to it, creating a thread entitled "Purebred Snobbery" is the exact same thing as creating a post entitled "Designer Dog Dingbats" in the Purebred Dog Forums.  It is centuries old;  human against human.  If I could withdraw my previous post I would.  However, I was caught up in the anger and rage (after a PetCo trip) and my anger and rage won the battle between my brain and my spirit in that moment.
 
I wish we were all dogs.  Great Danes don't see a Poodle and say "OH crap it's a Poodle, not a Great Dane, run!" NOPE. They see another dog they can play with!!  That's it.  They don't see BREED. They sense the gender, and the attitude of another dog, not what parents that dog had/has!
 
...I wish we were all canines.
emgerber
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There are many different thoughts laid out here in this discussion. I guess we need to all pay attention to our dogs. If you are a dog and you want to play I will play but if you are mean or aggressive I am just going to ignore you and just enjoy my life the way it unfold.
BellaBonBon
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Well said Emgerber; well said indeed.  I think it's quite humorous that we all want to teach our dogs different things, but the most valuable lessons are those that are taught to humans by none other than their canine companions. Oh the irony. =D
emgerber
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Well I know for sure my dog is way smart then me. She continues to teach me so much. I know that it is just an allusion that I am teaching her. She know so much about life and how to live it to the fullest. I need to learn to play hard, love more deeply and to live in the moment.

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